Hey guys!!
I've got a tricky one (not really), i'm wondering whats involved to put a 308 into an LC/LJ Torana. When i say 'whats involved', i mean - how different is it to putting a 308 into an LH/LX/UC which are known straight swaps with no mods bar the usual diff upgrade, etc...
Any help is much appreciated!
Keith
LC/LJ V8 Conversion
Started by
_Keithy's_UC_
, Jun 25 2007 07:00 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
_lurkin308_
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Posted 25 June 2007 - 07:22 PM
http://www.gmh-toran...try_view&iden=3
its very easy once you have all the parts ya could do it in a day/weekend
cheers caine
its very easy once you have all the parts ya could do it in a day/weekend
cheers caine
#3
_Keithy's_UC_
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Posted 25 June 2007 - 07:38 PM
Thanks heaps for that Caine!
Keith
Keith
#4
_lurkin308_
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Posted 25 June 2007 - 08:05 PM
no worries mate you can buy off the shelf extrctors from castlemaine auto electrics cheeper than the rod shop too. They are a close fit and if you know some one at a machanic shop you can buy them a trade too, and will cost you under $500 and can get them in vn style heads too the extra parts will not cost more than $1000 on top of the motor. In mine i only have 350fwhp and run 12.15 @112mph with only a banjo 3.55 so they are a good bang for buck
cheers caine
cheers caine
#5
_big_als_army_
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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:58 PM
No offence to the person who wrote it but that V8 conversion guide it pretty bad. You don't need to move the column and depending on which state you are in, you may not need to fit a chassis kit. All you need is a sump from Hi-Energy/Fabrication mob, 2 x LH/LX steering knuckles, some HT/HG or HQ engine mounts, a set of extractors from CRS/Castle Auto, a smaller starter motor and a front brake upgrade LH/LX V8/HQ. It all just bolts in apart from cutting the steering shaft.
You don't need to pull the whole car apart like in that guide, just undo the 4 crossmember to chassis mounting bolts, the 2 outrigger bolts, the brake lines at the master cylinder, the cotter pins in the steering shaft, the exhaust from the extractors/exhaust manifold, the 4 gearbox crossmember bolts and the engine wiring. Now lift the whole body up and wheel out the entire front end with the motor and box, etc. all on it. The tailshaft will just slip out of the back of the box.
If you need to fit a chassis kit for engineer's requirements, do it now. Its a simple bolt in operation and the kit comes with detailed instructions and everything required to fit it.
With it all out and the body now supported on standard at the front, undo the engine mounts and take the motor and box off the front end. At this point you need to modify the steering by cutting your steering shaft about 100mm from the crossmember and add an LH/LX uni joint into it with a keyway cut for the cotter pin. Put another one at the base of the steering column and when you have the front end in, you can cut the intermediate section of shaft between the two. Just make sure you set the uni joints up to work with each other, i.e. rotated at 90 degrees on the shaft compared with the other. You can quickly sit the empty front end back under to cut the other section as its easier than with the V8 in it then pull it out again. Now put the complete 308 with all accessories, box, extractors, engine mounts, etc. onto the front end. With it all in place, lift the body up a bit, roll it all back under and bolt the crossmember back to the chassis, outriggers, cotter pins in steering, etc. as before.
Now you need to look at the front brakes. You can swap straight over to LH/LX V8 brakes by splitting the ball joints and tie rods and disconnecting the brake lines and taking the whole stub axles out with everything on them and replacing them with the LH/LX gear.
Next is the tailshaft and diff. If you are going for a diff conversion, pull the whole diff out and put in the conversion one. If not or you have already done this, nest you need to take the sliding yoke off your tailshaft, put it in the back of the box, then measure up the distance from the yoke in the box to the yoke on the diff. Take your tailshaft to an engineering shop and get it shortened to suit or get them to make up a new one for you. Add new unis and put into place.
Now take the car to an exhaust place and get your choice of pipes made up. Next its off to the engineer to get your report. You will probably need to go via a public weigh bridge and bring the vehicle weight receipt to the engineer. The engineer will pass the conversion and its off to a mechanic for a blue slip for the change of engine numbers and a revue of the engineer's certificate. Now its off to the RTA to keep it all legal. All done, happy motoring!
You don't need to pull the whole car apart like in that guide, just undo the 4 crossmember to chassis mounting bolts, the 2 outrigger bolts, the brake lines at the master cylinder, the cotter pins in the steering shaft, the exhaust from the extractors/exhaust manifold, the 4 gearbox crossmember bolts and the engine wiring. Now lift the whole body up and wheel out the entire front end with the motor and box, etc. all on it. The tailshaft will just slip out of the back of the box.
If you need to fit a chassis kit for engineer's requirements, do it now. Its a simple bolt in operation and the kit comes with detailed instructions and everything required to fit it.
With it all out and the body now supported on standard at the front, undo the engine mounts and take the motor and box off the front end. At this point you need to modify the steering by cutting your steering shaft about 100mm from the crossmember and add an LH/LX uni joint into it with a keyway cut for the cotter pin. Put another one at the base of the steering column and when you have the front end in, you can cut the intermediate section of shaft between the two. Just make sure you set the uni joints up to work with each other, i.e. rotated at 90 degrees on the shaft compared with the other. You can quickly sit the empty front end back under to cut the other section as its easier than with the V8 in it then pull it out again. Now put the complete 308 with all accessories, box, extractors, engine mounts, etc. onto the front end. With it all in place, lift the body up a bit, roll it all back under and bolt the crossmember back to the chassis, outriggers, cotter pins in steering, etc. as before.
Now you need to look at the front brakes. You can swap straight over to LH/LX V8 brakes by splitting the ball joints and tie rods and disconnecting the brake lines and taking the whole stub axles out with everything on them and replacing them with the LH/LX gear.
Next is the tailshaft and diff. If you are going for a diff conversion, pull the whole diff out and put in the conversion one. If not or you have already done this, nest you need to take the sliding yoke off your tailshaft, put it in the back of the box, then measure up the distance from the yoke in the box to the yoke on the diff. Take your tailshaft to an engineering shop and get it shortened to suit or get them to make up a new one for you. Add new unis and put into place.
Now take the car to an exhaust place and get your choice of pipes made up. Next its off to the engineer to get your report. You will probably need to go via a public weigh bridge and bring the vehicle weight receipt to the engineer. The engineer will pass the conversion and its off to a mechanic for a blue slip for the change of engine numbers and a revue of the engineer's certificate. Now its off to the RTA to keep it all legal. All done, happy motoring!
#6
_JBird_
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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:12 AM
That's a good write up.
Also you need a V8 radiator, typically a HQ one, trim the mount plates a little where it hits the chassis rail.
Sticky anyone? This question gets asked once a month. (I know cause I was one of them
)
Also you need a V8 radiator, typically a HQ one, trim the mount plates a little where it hits the chassis rail.
Sticky anyone? This question gets asked once a month. (I know cause I was one of them
)
#7
_big_als_army_
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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:16 AM
Yeah, there was something else I missed too that I can't think of now. This is the 2nd time I've written that up, the 1st one was more detailed. I'll try to find it and link it back to this thread.
#8
_big_als_army_
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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:31 AM
You also need an alternator bracket either from an HT/HG 253/308 or better still a low mount driver's side one from an LH/LX 253/308. That wasn't the thing I was thinking of though so there is something more still...
#9
_big_als_army_
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Posted 30 June 2007 - 01:34 AM
Oh yeah, undo your speedo cable, shifter and clutch bracketry before removing the whole front end. Thats it!
You can also put the motor and box in the old fashioned way through thetop of the engine bay after removing the bonnet but if you do do it this way, you will need to undo the 4 crossmember to chassis mounting bolts and jack the car up on one side as close to the front wheel as you can get to get enough clearance to drop the straight up flat part of the sump down over the crossmember.
You can also put the motor and box in the old fashioned way through thetop of the engine bay after removing the bonnet but if you do do it this way, you will need to undo the 4 crossmember to chassis mounting bolts and jack the car up on one side as close to the front wheel as you can get to get enough clearance to drop the straight up flat part of the sump down over the crossmember.
#10
_the_new_a9x_replica_
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Posted 01 July 2007 - 09:52 AM
V8 tech page is very good but you have to read it properly it is not a step by step guide just a few things he did to get it to fit and drive
it doesnt say anything about not having a chassi kit in some states it states they are needed for the job and is not a optional thing and even directs you to the rod shop to get it !!!!
The only part that i thought was a bit stupid was the shifter but hay i tried it and it does work
Apart from that it is exzactly as he says
After doing this conversion this year if i knew who he was i would be drilling into his head and sucking out his brains cause i would i reckon there is a little more in there to share
it doesnt say anything about not having a chassi kit in some states it states they are needed for the job and is not a optional thing and even directs you to the rod shop to get it !!!!
The only part that i thought was a bit stupid was the shifter but hay i tried it and it does work
Apart from that it is exzactly as he says
After doing this conversion this year if i knew who he was i would be drilling into his head and sucking out his brains cause i would i reckon there is a little more in there to share
#11
_big_als_army_
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Posted 01 July 2007 - 12:24 PM
The chassis kit is not needed for the conversion, its optional. In VIC I know you do need one for an engineer's report but in NSW and QLD you definitely don't. In saying that though, I'm in NSW and the first thing I bought for mine was a chassis kit. It already had a 308 and TH350 in it when I got it and was engineered for the conversion without a chassis kit.
#12
Struggler
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Posted 01 July 2007 - 02:16 PM
Hey Al, how did you get your block to clear the column ?
The first one I did the block rubbed on the column at the bellhousing flange. I moved the column over and never checked again (every one I did from then I just moved the column over).
I have seen un-moved columns, but someone had ground away the block to suit.
The first one I did the block rubbed on the column at the bellhousing flange. I moved the column over and never checked again (every one I did from then I just moved the column over).
I have seen un-moved columns, but someone had ground away the block to suit.
#13
_big_als_army_
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Posted 01 July 2007 - 03:25 PM
I can't see any clearance issues where you are talking about. I'll let you know for sure when I put my LC back together. My LJ already had the column moved slightly so there was plenty of room with it, its got a custom top uni knuckle incorporating a flexible coupling into it too. Do you mean it rubbed on the column, the top uni knuckle or the shaft? It may be the engine mounts/engine mount brackets you used too as some sit the motor lower and/or further back which could cause problems.
#14
GTR-1
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Posted 01 July 2007 - 03:56 PM
As big_als_army mentions, it could be the mounts, if you are not using V8 HQ mounts, try them. You shouldn't have any clearance problems.Hey Al, how did you get your block to clear the column ?
The first one I did the block rubbed on the column at the bellhousing flange. I moved the column over and never checked again (every one I did from then I just moved the column over).
I have seen un-moved columns, but someone had ground away the block to suit.
When I got mine done we used VL knuckles (if i remember correctly) as the overall diameter of them is quite narrow
#15
_holdon_
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 09:27 AM
Hey guys - i just want to clarify.....
are you suggesting that if i use HQ V8 mounts and throw in the 2 lx knuckles - i can leave the steering column where it is and not have clearance issues with the column and block? wouldnt this also effect the knuckles around the extractors?
anyone else here have a v8 lj/lc that hasnt moved the column over or ground back the block?
are you suggesting that if i use HQ V8 mounts and throw in the 2 lx knuckles - i can leave the steering column where it is and not have clearance issues with the column and block? wouldnt this also effect the knuckles around the extractors?
anyone else here have a v8 lj/lc that hasnt moved the column over or ground back the block?
#16
_rorym_
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 09:49 AM
The real problem is it varies greatly from car to car. I drilled the holes over to the accel pedal by about 15/20mm ,cut the rod coming out of the rack and fitted the steel knuckle as close as I could to the crossmember..added the middle shaft and fitted another steel knuckle at the top..no dramas. Its take bugger all time to drill the holes and move the column and saves you having to try and do it later if you have to. I would suggest just doing it as it gives better clearence and isnt a big job.I can't see any clearance issues where you are talking about. I'll let you know for sure when I put my LC back together. My LJ already had the column moved slightly so there was plenty of room with it, its got a custom top uni knuckle incorporating a flexible coupling into it too. Do you mean it rubbed on the column, the top uni knuckle or the shaft? It may be the engine mounts/engine mount brackets you used too as some sit the motor lower and/or further back which could cause problems.
I used HT V8 mounts and brackets.
R
Edited by rorym, 13 July 2007 - 09:49 AM.
#17
_Machine_
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 11:52 AM
my column was moved for clearance, Ht mounts.
#18
_holdon_
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 01:59 PM
ah ok. - ht mounts....these will make the engine sit higher correct?
the only issue i have with moving the column is that it will push the steering wheel over the left (passenger side) more.....
i sat in andrews lc (A1) and this is far more noticeable than what mine is without the column moved.
i guess to correct this the column mount under the dash also needs to be moved over......
the only issue i have with moving the column is that it will push the steering wheel over the left (passenger side) more.....
i sat in andrews lc (A1) and this is far more noticeable than what mine is without the column moved.
i guess to correct this the column mount under the dash also needs to be moved over......
#19
_rorym_
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 02:11 PM
2 drives and you wont notice it. Its about 3/4"at the wheel.
R
R
#20
gtrboyy
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Posted 13 July 2007 - 06:06 PM
I moved my column over as far as possible & filed those alloy tabs where the bolts go through to make it easier also to give that little bit more clearance as in my car with the 304/getrag it was really close to the steering knuckles.
You will get used to where the steering is pretty easily.
You will get used to where the steering is pretty easily.
Edited by gtrboyy, 13 July 2007 - 06:08 PM.
#21
_draglc_
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Posted 17 July 2007 - 01:35 PM
I dont even notice the position of the steering wheel now.. until someone mentions it!
A1
A1
#22
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 10 August 2008 - 08:29 PM
I bought My LC with a 253 init and was done dodgey im gunna put a 308 i just wanna work out this steering and uni mod. i think the person i bought it of tried to do somthing so i dont know if its standrd or not it has 2 unis in it one starts at the cross member about 100mm from the rack and the other is up near the fire wall. this hit the extracors that were in it but the engine mounts were dodgey with bits of steel plate jammed in it. i know noone else with an LC i will try and post a pic if somome can help me. also whats the diferance between HT HG HQ and HJX engine mounts? they all seem to come under same catagory on ebay.
Dan
Dan
#23
gtrboyy
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Posted 11 August 2008 - 09:38 AM
Bundy,by the sounds of it the steering mod has already been done by cutting steering shaft,adding 2 knuckles & putting a new piece in between them.Can't comment about the crs/castlemaine extractors but most off the shelf extractors were not a nice fit either hitting the steering or the crossmember,I used 2 piece hurricane ones & still had to get new bottoms made & modify the extractors..fit nice now,no issues.
Hq & later eng brackets apparentlly sit engine a 8-10mm lower than the hk/lh mounts.
Did your's have spacers under the engine mount rubbers?
Hq & later eng brackets apparentlly sit engine a 8-10mm lower than the hk/lh mounts.
Did your's have spacers under the engine mount rubbers?
#24
_rorym_
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Posted 11 August 2008 - 06:25 PM
You need to elongate the mounting holes for the steering column or redrill them 20mm to the throtle padel..this moves the column away from the extractors..Look at Wouldbes article..not all correct...especially the shifter thing but the rest is pretty OK.
R
R
#25
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 11 August 2008 - 07:15 PM
thanks guys, does anyone have these engine mounts they wanna sell?
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