19 replies to this topic

[madtoranajzedded]

Hi guys.I’m after a copy of the gmh press release of the 1971 gtr xu-1 .I’m helping a friend as he’s in the process of wanting to put an v8 into his 2 dr gtr torana.he’s down in tas and has contacted Burnett consulting and they would like to see this document as they can then hopefully  use this to allow the fitment of the v8 into the torana..

 

cheers maz

[gtrboyy]

Dr Terry's Holden History book or Fiv Antonmou(sp) Gtr Xu1 book?

[yel327]

Hi guys.I’m after a copy of the gmh press release of the 1971 gtr xu-1 .I’m helping a friend as he’s in the process of wanting to put an v8 into his 2 dr gtr torana.he’s down in tas and has contacted Burnett consulting and they would like to see this document as they can then hopefully use this to allow the fitment of the v8 into the torana..

cheers maz

I’ll have a look if I have it. What do they need from it? If it’s the weight I can copy the page from the GMH Eng Tech Specs. But what you want for NCOP compliance is the heaviest sedan equivalent, not the XU1’s weight.

[madtoranajzedded]

I’ll have a look if I have it. What do they need from it? If it’s the weight I can copy the page from the GMH Eng Tech Specs. But what you want for NCOP compliance is the heaviest sedan equivalent, not the XU1’s weight.

Hi Yel .I’d say the original headlining from page 1 stating it is an actual gmh press release is what they want to see.an genuine document... .I’m pretty sure on page 5 just states the weight with no headlining at top of page to say it’s actually from gmh ..just typed out.i thought the heaviest variant is the 71  lc xu-1..if the lj is heavier again ..that would b even more helpful getting it over the line..I don’t think they will allow it otherwise .

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 08 October 2025 - 08:27 PM.

[rodomo]

There is a bloke down your way (Allan?) that may or may not have one of the factory prototypes that would have all that info I'm pretty sure.

[madtoranajzedded]

There is a bloke down your way (Allan?) that may or may not have one of the factory prototypes that would have all that info I'm pretty sure.

Im not sure if that guy exists . I don’t think he would want to talk to me through all the shit stirring he recieved yrs ago when I was only joking but he took it all too seriously lol…I think I heard on the grapevine he has a v8 in it with a chassis strengthening kit but unsure if it is registered .

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 09 October 2025 - 01:05 AM.

[S pack]

Hi guys.I’m after a copy of the gmh press release of the 1971 gtr xu-1 .I’m helping a friend as he’s in the process of wanting to put an v8 into his 2 dr gtr torana.he’s down in tas and has contacted Burnett consulting and they would like to see this document as they can then hopefully  use this to allow the fitment of the v8 into the torana..

 

cheers maz

Hey Maz, I can provide you a digital copy of the complete press release. Just need an email to send it to.

Cheers,

Dave.
 

[yel327]

I found it, will try and put t up later today. No weight on the front page though, only on last page. 2430lb. But as I said you need the sedan if I read it right.

 

I also have the original Eng Tech Specs from 9/71 for the updated ca. 2417lb.

[S pack]

I found it, will try and put t up later today. No weight on the front page though, only on last page. 2430lb. But as I said you need the sedan if I read it right.

 

I also have the original Eng Tech Specs from 9/71 for the updated ca. 2417lb.

XU1 is the heaviest LC & LJ Torana model.
 

[yel327]

XU1 is the heaviest LC & LJ Torana model.

Yes that is a given, but the NCOP deals with the heaviest sedan in the Series so to Engineer you need the sedan’s weight. Same issue with HK coupes, the Brougham is lighter than a GTS327 but it’s the Brougham’s weight that you use.

 

https://www.infrastr...1jan2011_v3.pdf

 

Here is the text:

 

 NCOP sedan.jpg   38.5K   3 downloads

Edited by yel327, 09 October 2025 - 08:32 AM.

[Dr Terry]

It depends on what your definition of a "sedan" is. In RMS/TfNSW language, coupes, 2 door & 4-door sedans are all classified as sedans. Wagons & commercials are not.

 

This means that a 2-door XU1 is a sedan, well it is a 2-door sedan anyway, you do sometimes hear it incorrectly described as a coupe.

 

Same with HK, the GTS327 is the heaviest "sedan" at 1495 kg.

 

I know this to be true, I just completed a TfNSW Blue Slip (AUVIS) inspector's course.

 

Dr Terry

[yel327]

Terry

That is good if that is the case, the problem is this is a National COP and that definition is State based. If it applies Nationally then it’s a win. The reason I raised it was an Engineer pointed that out to me when looking at a 427 in my HK coupe, and it worked with the GTS327’s weight but didn’t with the Brougham. With the NCOP limits are higher than under the old NSW regs.

[Dr Terry]

I believe the Feds & our TfNSW are on the same page with this one. They use the same abbreviation codes. All of the dats sheets are issued by the Australian Government Department of Transport & Regional Services.

 

All they are saying is you must not use the wagon or commercial variants in your calculations, it must be the 'passenger' version.

 

Dr Terry

[S pack]

Yes that is a given, but the NCOP deals with the heaviest sedan in the Series so to Engineer you need the sedan’s weight. Same issue with HK coupes, the Brougham is lighter than a GTS327 but it’s the Brougham’s weight that you use.

 

https://www.infrastr...1jan2011_v3.pdf

 

Here is the text:

 

NCOP sedan.jpg

LC & LJ 2dr are sedans. XU1 are 2dr sedans.
 

[yel327]

I believe the Feds & our TfNSW are on the same page with this one. They use the same abbreviation codes. All of the dats sheets are issued by the Australian Government Department of Transport & Regional Services.

 

All they are saying is you must not use the wagon or commercial variants in your calculations, it must be the 'passenger' version.

 

Dr Terry

 

Its good that is the case as it was hard to rationalise the thinking otherwise.

 

Note that a GTS327 isn't 1495kg Tare Weight, it is 3295lb (1494.6kg) Curb Weight, which is the car full of fuel. Tare weight is the car with 10L of fuel. 26 gallons of fuel (118L) minus the 10L from the Tare Weight definition is 108L which is 87kg. So the Tare Weight of a GTS327 in standard form would be 1408kg or close to that.

 

The same thing would have to be done for the XU1 and its 17 gallon tank as the weights quoted are Curb Weights. Here is the Sept 1971 revision for the final LC XU1's.

 

 XU1 front page Eng Tech Specs.jpg   107.24K   4 downloads

Edited by yel327, 09 October 2025 - 06:14 PM.

[madtoranajzedded]

If the weight has been revised from the other earlier gmh document there’s no point then showing that to Burnett consulting as it’s now under ncops reccomendation of 1100kg .so it will b at the descripiancy of the engineer whether to allow or not..it’s like the majority of engineers aren’t even using the vsb 14 ncop as there’s plenty of lj getting regd without it 

Edited by madtoranajzedded, 09 October 2025 - 08:46 PM.

[yel327]

Yes, and that 2417lb is Curb, 1098kg or thereabouts. Then remove some kg for the fuel to get back to 10L. Well under 1100kg.
LJ XU1 would be closer to 1100kg but may not be over it.

[yel327]

LC & LJ 2dr are sedans. XU1 are 2dr sedans.
 

 

Yes I get that and so are HT-HQ wagons - GMH call them Station Sedans (didn't become Station Wagons until HJ). But as Dr Terry pointed out, what GMH called them doesn't matter, its how they are classified by Govt's. HJ-HZ Caprice would be an interesting test, they are technically the heaviest sedan in those Series, but they are because of what is on them (standard A/C for example), but also because they are LWB. Those NCOP rules state MODEL not SERIES, so technically if you were modifying a HJ Belmont sedan, it'd be the heaviest Belmont sedan not heaviest HJ sedan - if you followed their words.

Edited by yel327, 10 October 2025 - 05:52 AM.

[Dr Terry]

HQ-WB Statesman is an interesting one. As you probably know, GMH didn't market them as Holdens, they were presented as s"Statesman by GM" & that's the way TfNSW treat them. They are listed under the Statesman brand & not included as a Holden.

 

I believe that the heaviest Belmont could be a V8 Premier, they are both listed as HJ "Holdens".

 

Dr Terry

[yel327]

Terry I reckon that is how it’d work but the NCOP wording says Model not Series, so it has an interpretation issue. Whomever wrote it didn’t think about it enough. If those words were in AS/NZS3000 and I was Engineering to them, let’s say someone was modifying a HQ Belmont sedan, MODEL 80169. The heaviest one of that model would be one optioned with 202 and auto. V8 Belmont is different Model, 80269. Yes you could go into equivalence and upgrade it to V8 Belmont, but in Regulations and underlying COP’s designed to be applied by Engineers they need to be very specific especially in COP’s. Even worse when people do the right thing and self-Engineer (as in make modifications not requiring Certification) they need to be especially clear. If your average car person was to read that, they would view a HQ Deville as a HQ Model, so would use a 350 optioned Deville as the heaviest sedan, whereas probably an XW8 auto Kingswood sedan is probably the intended car (or possibly 350 auto 81237). In the end (as an Engineer) I reckon the Statesman would be a better comparison to a Wagon for weight restricted modifications. And I fail to see how a Sedan is Engineered by GMH has relevence for a commercial in regards to for example, rear axle loading. In the end I’d be applying what I normally apply when Regulations use SHOULD. Our legal system sees should as “do what is stated or something as good as” where SHALL is far more prescriptive.