437 replies to this topic

[hawk]

Got the motor running on the stand, so stoked.

Sounded pretty healthy other than the timing being a bit out.

Got the K frame and 173 out too. passengers side rail us worse than I initially thought sadly.

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[toryman76]

Great progress!! That rail looks like it could be the result of a front end whack. I reckon with some persistence with a hammer dolly and some heat you should be able to straighten it on the car.

[oh five]

Hi Steve, great project.

Don't be scared of the damage to the rail, it needs corking at the fold from inside the rail. A home made tool that will fit through the bolt access hole and placed at the fold with a dolly of some sorts on the other side. I definitely wouldn't be replacing that rail from the pictures you have posted.

Merry Christmas  

[hawk]

Thanks Guys, merry Christmas.

Deffinitly had a front ender, the rad support has been replaced at some point and poorly too.

I have an idea of how to straighten the rail. May need to convince work to let me make a couple of components to help with it.

I'll get the front end finished first then try to tackle the rail. I don't plan on any panel work or painting the car properly at this stage. Aim is to get it regoed and enjoy it for a while.

[Rockoz]

I used my engine lifter bits and pieces to straighten a rail before.

A chain block can be handy as well depending on which way it has to go.

Check your roof for a dimple about palm sized around the B pillar area.

They usually dimple there with a bent rail.

Once you get it all square the dimple disappears.

Check the seam going across above the tunnel as well.

Sometimes they will get a bit of a gap there as well.

Again, it closes when square. Just need to redo the seam sealer.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[hawk]

Ah I really didn't want to have to tackle this sort of stuff yet.

Thanks heaps for the advice, it explains the bog in the roof on the passengers side. to see if its a dimple I'd have to strip the roof.

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To be honest this sort or work is beyond my ability and equipment available at home. Dependant on the cost to get it done properly by a professional, I may be better off getting another shell.

[Heath]

I don't think you should make a big deal about the rail at all.

 

I would just make some simple tools to straighten that area up a bit as Mick said (like... it's a few minutes with a hammer and dollies once you have something that fits nicely into that fold on the inside), and continue with the work you're doing.

 

As long as you can align the panels, and get the front end aligned how you want it, within reason, who gives a shit if it's got a bit of a wave in it.

[Rockoz]

Find the chassis measurement diagram on here.

Im sure someone knows exactly where it is and will post it for you.

Get some brickies string, set out some lines and see how far out it is.

The rails will often move up as well as sideways if the hit was decent enough.

Check it all then let us know how it is and we may be able to suggest how to fix it.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[hawk]

Thanks guys, I'll take those measurements tomorrow if I can.
I just want to be sure its right. They are bent/ pushed in at the lower k frame mounts too. Plan is to save a bit and get it to a panel shop and have the harder bits done there.

K frame is all stripped and ready to be blasted and painted. Will have to get some new V8 springs now as the original plan was to keep the 6.

the below front end came with the motor I bought and has hq brakes can anyone tell what the callipers are and if they are torana or kingswood stubs?

Should I use these or just buy a hoppers kit?


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[yel327]

Those are Holden/Statesman calipers. Torana alloy bodies have a top entry hose. They have the Torana slide and hex nut though to clear the tie-rod. Unless the discs have been machined they will be HK-WB Holden or Statesman stubs, might not be from a Kingswood but easily could be.
Looking at the location of the tie rods compared to the caliper closest bolt, they seem to be in a weird location than I remember them being with UC steering arms. I wonder if they are HQ steering arms?

Edited by yel327, 29 December 2020 - 09:10 PM.

[hawk]

Ok cheers, I'll work out the brakes later.

so I took some measurements today based on the image below.

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Had to take the diagonals without droppers as the floor is pretty uneven.

front bar to front bar bolt holes centre to centre was 785mm
drivers side front to passengers rear gearbox mount was 1750mm and passengers front to drivers rear gearbox mount was 1730mm.

Found more suprises while under there today. Drivers rail is cracked at the lower k frame mount and passengers rail is cracked in 3 spots near the gearbox crossmember where it was pushed upwards.

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Got the little guy help tear some of the motor down and put some new Welch plugs in it.

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[Rockoz]

Make sure the rails are the 15 inch measurement up on both sides.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[rexy]

Personally I would clean up and reuse as much stuff as possible. 
You don’t need new front springs, the six cylinder ones will be fine.

The brakes and stub axles should fit. The calipers are HX and will do the job fine.

 

I would concentrate on getting it assembled.

[hawk]

I've already stripped the K frame out of the car, and have all new bushes, balljoints, springs and shocks ready to go as well as new torana discs.

I need to wait until stuff opens up now that new years is over so I can get the old bushes removed and send everything off to be blasted and painted.

The torana callipers I have are siezed and need a rebuild. The spare front end above I was planning on putting the old discs off my car onto. then that front end in it to transport it to a panel shop if they are willing to tackle the rails.

Rockoz, I will aim to get those other measurements asap. It will be hard to get super accurate to to the damage to the rails and uneven surface im working with (dirt and gravel).

I will need some time to save to have the repairs done and will use that time to clean up the 253, paint it and replace some gaskets. While sorting out the front suspension as well.

As I thought the shell was in good condition when initially purchased, all my spare money went into the parts to do suspension and brakes. I was hoping for a quick mechanical overhaul and rego to enjoy for a while.

So moving forward the plan is:

1. Remove the bushes and ball joints from the front suspension. (do I use the uc k frame or lh/lx) Could the uc one be bent based off the rail damage?

2. send the front end and some other bits off for blasting and powder coating.

3. piece the rebuilt and painted stuff back together ready to go into the car.

4. consult with a panel shop regarding the required repairs.

5. In-between the above, put torana discs on the spare front end and re fit to the shell to get it mobile.

6. finish cleaning up the motor with new gaskets and paint. Maybe replace the inlet manifold and dizzy.

7. Decide on gearbox choice, I have 2 V8 trimatic boxes at home but really prefer to go manual. I may have to settle on the auto for the time being.

8. steering rack rebuild.

9. get the repairs done to the shell if funds permit, if not it will stay stagnant for a while as I save.

10. reassemble with the rebuilt front end and everything else. Brake choice will have to be decided at some point too.

Anything I'm missing or should do differently?

BTW Happy new year all and I look forward to sharing more as this progresses. Although I post a lot of insignificant work on the car, I enjoy sharing it and am just excited to have a torana again, no matter what the cost haha.

[LHSL]

Good luck with it. The rails shouldn't cost much to get repaired.
UC front ends are much better than LH/LX ones so stick with that.
After you repair the rails and with engine out maybe tidy up and spray the engine bay?
Love what you're doing too!

[Rockoz]

I got a long length of rhs tube and fixed it to the sills somehow to get the measurements.

Tek screws perhaps. It was a long time ago.

Then you just work it out from there.

Check the diagonals on the front door openings.

That can give you a good clue as to where it is at.

I got mine within 0.5mm using the engine lifter and some chains anchored to the concrete.

They were likely to be only within 5 mm tolerance when built anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[yel327]

I remember Rob when I last spoke to Leo Pruneau at length. He told me that when they changed all body plants over for Commodore they had to replace most of the Holden and Sunbird/Torana Fisher body jigs as Commodore had far less tolerance in panel gaps. Even the Fisher body welders wouldn't work. From memory they still kept old jigs as they still made Sunbird into 1980 and Holden to the end of 1984, but they needed all new ones for Commodore. Must have cost a bit as Pagewood built the bulk of VB-VH bodies, but they were also being built in the other body plants. Then Pagewood closed in 1980. 

[hawk]

Thanks guys, LHSL as much as I'd like to paint the bay, at this stage I plan to leave it as is.

Rockoz, those measurements I took aren't the most accurate but came out at 345mm. Both sides I got the same so hopefully that's good news.

Got a busy day tomorrow getting things ready on the car before I go back to work Tuesday.

Mainly getting things ready to send to the blasters
and maybe getting the spare front end into the car for now.

[hawk]

Today I ground the bracket for the rag joint cover off the K frame as I want to run double knuckle.

Degreased and cleaned up a lot of bits that are off to the blasters and started to fit the spare K frame to the car to get it rolling again.

When getting the parts blasted should I have all the bushes and such refitted before painting or after?

Also I just tape up the spindles on the stub axles? and the holes for the ball joints?

Any specific type of tape or just anything works?

Does anywhere sell new bolts for the lower K frame mounts? as one of mine is bent.



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[toryman76]

Not sure where you are located but I use Mike at Ada powdercoating in thomastown. They deep clean blast and powdercoat. It's cost effective and time saving too as you don't need to worry about cleaning parts up. I wouldn't blast the stubs. I spent the time to clean them up myself with wire wheel wire brush etc then protected the spindles with tape for etching and painting process using KBS. Very happy with the results but time consuming. Hope that helps.

[toryman76]

When you say lower k frame bolts you mean the long out rigger bolts? If so then no I don't think you can buy them exact type new. If you want new best thing would be match the thread and length at a bolt shop then machine a point in the end. The point helps to guide the bolt back in without damaging things.

[Toranamat69]

https://www.ebay.com...oAAOSwBp1bZnKGP

This is the only place I've seen replacements for sale.

Otherwise measure up the old one and go to good fastener shop. You would probably get a bit cheaper but I'd say these days an oddball size like that would be an order in item.

[hawk]

Well, I have no idea what to do now. I had a chat to Peter Tommasini at his panel shop about the repairs and showed him photos of the damage.

6K to repair whats there or 8k to replace the rails if I can source them. At the end of the day it's not worth spending that kind of money on this shell. Not to menion I don't have that sort of money to spend at the moment as I put it all into this.
Its essentially an expensive parts car.

[toryman76]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Was your intention with this car to tidy up suspension slot a v8 in and drive it? No panel and paint? If so why not continue on that same path and just enjoy it. Although the dents in the rail are ugly it doesn't sound like the dimensions are too far out that you won't achieve a wheel alignment. So I reckon weld up the crack you found, and either have a go straightening the dent yourself or just leave it alone and get on with enjoying the car. I spent 16yrs building mine doing things multiple times over because I wanted perfect but at the same token I lost 16yrs of driving and enjoyment. Finding the balance is the key in my opinion.

[Heath]

Drill out the ends of the cracks, weld up the cracks, give it a squirt of paint, and get it on the road.